Did India give us freedom?
View Poll Results: Did India give us freedom?
no
------------- 35 --------- 71.43%
yes
--------------- 14 ----------- 28.57%
The above is a poll result from AmaderGaan - a music site for the young generation Bangladeshis both home and abroad. As you can see most think India did not give us freedon but a striking one-third do believe that India did give us the freedom and without them we would have never gained our freedom.
It's good to see that the young generations are discusiing such issues which are often ignored or hidden back home. I have faced myself with loads of embrassing situations when many Indians claimed that they created us. Confused and shocked , I went back to learn history in a different light and found with utter disbelief that India was the key player in the war and we were just helping them. My Earlier post on the 'Creation of Bangladesh' explores the myth and reality of the 1971 war. See also the secret British official documents : Bangladesh war secrets revealed ( Full Text: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/2619317.stm ) and the secret US official documents ( Full Text : http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/GF23Df04.html )
The most irritating thing is that even after all these years we have failed to pay the due respect to the Indians. None of the media, discussions or the intellectuals in Bangaldesh say a single word on the Indian part in the war. Very sad , isn't it ?
Anyway , below are some interesting comments from various new generation Bangladeshis in the poll forum. Take a look.
No, I don't think India gave us freedom because they didn't come and participate in our war for freedom. I guess the reason why those chatters are saying it is because India did train Bangladeshis to use rifles and stuff. In that respect, they did do that favor for us (even though political propaganda is implicated there)...but NO, India didn't give us freedom.
- crazyyou23
no one can give someone ( i mean a country here ) their freedom on a golden platter. u have to earn it, and likewise we earned it after a huge deal of sacrifice. but the fact remains u can not write history without mentioning the friends who stood behind you, provided you with shelter,food and in our case got involved in a full frontal battel against our enemy and shed blood. nothwithstanding the world politics that surrounded (including india's own benefit having a divided pakistan) our fight for independence, india did have a huge impact in our independence, and like any other self respecting country we should acknowledge that with utmost gratitude.
- ifti69
It's the nature of arrogant people to find excuses for talking down to people. Because Bangladesh is almost exclusively reknown worldwide because of its poverty and lack of development, it gets targeted with such rhetoric...Until Bangladesh becomes a rich and productive country that no longer relies on aid, we'll hear this kind of nonsense.
Back on topic...Bangladesh declared its independence of its own will. India took advantage of the conflict as a means of weakening Pakistan, its rival. While we owe thanks to India for their support in our struggle, whatever their actual reasons, it isn't them who gave us anything. A situation erupted in which both the people of future Bangladesh and the Indians would benefit from Pakistan's defeat in a war. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. That's the beginning and the end of it.
- ezdeath
Well I am not sure how to answer this question but I do acknowledge that India Played a Major role in our liberation war. It doesn’t matter what their intension was. All I care is that they bared our suffering/sorrow and stood beside us. Without their help we might have turned out to be another Vietnam fighting for yearssss. Sometime I wonder if Pakis could kill around 3 million innocent ppl, raping 200 thousand and making one million handicapped in 9 month THAN what could they have done in year 2 or 3 ???
The most powerful countries like USA, China were against us and we had no organized military. Could we have won the war with bamboo sticks and rocks? Palestine is still struggling for freedom and its been ages.Over 10000 Indian solders died in our war. They were spending one Million dollar every day to give food and shelter to refugees. R Osrer kotha nahoy Bad-e dilam…
Bipoder Bondhu-e ashol bondhu…..kintu amar mote amra oi bondhutter jothartho morjada dite pari nai. Amra ekta Hingsha-Biddeshe jorjorito Jaati. Bipode manusher kach thika shahajjo nei, kintu obosthar ektu unnoti hoile-e chinta korte shuru kori shahajjo-karir shartho ki chilo!! Akhono desher manusher mode ai mentality dekte pai. khubi kharap lage...
- attar-khoje
yes they did. without the help from India, it was merely impossible for us to get our freedom
- mrittunjoy
india's help to the mukti juddho was two fold-providing training and logistical support to the freedom fighters from bd -and also to send its own army deep into foreign territory to fight this battle.the treaty and surrender at dhaka was signed in font of an indian general(gen manekshaw).
however,now the flip side-the geopolitical equation of the items were such that india had to intervene in the matter-it didnt really have a choice-so for the govenrment it was a practical decision.but what about thousands of indian soldiers who died there on foreign soil?do they deserve this will u go and tell their sons and grand sons that no ur father didnt die for a good cause -no we dont think his life helped us in anyway.do they deserve that?
bangladesh earned their own freedom(as every natino must) but to deny that indian soldiers helped them,fought shoulder to shoulder with them,shed blood and made it all happen quicker and more easily -is to turn ur back on history.
- partha
I always felt India got involved for two reasons. One because of the number of refugees that crossed into their territory, and two, to get back at Pakistan. Hell, they might even have done it to establish credibiilty as a nation, considering how much their pride was wounded during partition and that they were pretty much a fledgling state at that time.
Freedom or not, I still believe they had a hand in Sheikh Mujib's assassination.
- Anodyne
i think that refugee problem was the more important factor anodyne.
about mujib's assasination -well mujib (and now haseena) was considered pro indian,tai mone hoy na otate indiar haath chilo.but then who can understand politics.(and certainly indira gandhi had by that time beocme the devil incarnate from the bharat mata of 1971)wasn't haseena in india itself during the assassination?(or have i got my facts wrong?)
- partha
NObody denies that people took shelter in India, locals provided foods and clothes and we must be grateful for that. But to suggest it was because of them, we acquired freedom, is something I strongly disagree with. You're right about US and China were against our independence, but it was actually Russia who supplied major arms THROUGH India. Do you think they were in a position to supply arms? This is very important to note.
Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that they were "silent observer" at the begining, they weren't opposing our freedom for obvious reason, but they also didn't offer help first hand. Someone mentioned, "my enemye's enemy is my friend", that's the most likely case for them to get involved. It wasn't until the late period of the war when the Pakistanis were losing and they attacked India as well. AFTER that officially India got involved.
Willingly or unwillingly they had to cooperate with us, and we're thankful for it. But when people say it was because of India we acquired freedom, is just plain wrong. Remember we didn't have any conventional army like Pakistan did, it was ordinary people fighting with any means they had access to. India's help certainly speeded up or shortened the length of ongoing war, that's all.
Would we have become independent without their help? Of course, but perhaps it would have been elongated.
- where_my_lungi
Yes I here you bro…. I also agree with you that some people tent get obsessed with India, but obsession in both ways might not be the correct answer/thinking also. I think it’s impossible to answer the Question If we could have gotten the freedom without India and Russia’s help or not. Because we are trying to drag a conclusion based on something which never took place. So it will always be an opinion which comes from gut feelings/pride/ego. Its not a tenable thing to base our argument on.
Definitely the freedom was achieved because of the determination and sacrifices of our brother and sister. But we also need to acknowledge those friends who also bared our pain and supported along the way.
There is no such thing as free meal in this world. Even our parents who are supporting us all the way also aspects something which is satisfactory to them. Now if we talk about justification of the demands than that’s another issue. But were we in a situation to bargain? I think not.
A Country’s independence only doesn’t rely on its internal war/conflict. There are lot other issues like world recognition; support from UN and also the media. It’s more like a team work. Who was representing us in the UN that time ? It was India who was facing all the criticism from big media of USA and UK and they are the ones who pleaded to the world to investigate the issue and the genocide that was taking place. They are the ones who conveyed our message to the world legal body. I think you will get a picture of it once I upload the documentary.
I am not saying that we should praise India to such level that gives away our country’s wellbeing. But we are always more considerable towards our friends in life right ? It works both ways and that’s how a good relation develops. I think we could have taken our friendship to the next level but I guess some of us were too much controlled by their pride and ego for some reason.
I think we just need to get our facts right and stop the game of accusation and be more appreciative to others effort. We also need to stop dragging definite conclusion based on pure guesswork such as what could happen.
- attar-khoje
No, India didnt gave us freedom nor did anyonenot even Mujib, Zia or any politicians
in 71 all those unknown people who fought with sticks bamboos and lousy guns, who lost their lives, relatives, houses and dignity these are the people who gave us freedom.
India helped us, thats true, during 71 they gave us shelter , we acknowledge that, and we also know that India strategically gained a lot from Bangladesh freedom.
Israel also helped us during 71, they send food and materials for the Bangladeshi refugees in India. We appreciate that.
But india should know that we beat Pakistan not because we would like to be a colony of India. so all those indians or pakistanies who argue about our freedom and dignity, please let them know that I would be glad to open my zipper and piss on their faces........that will cool them off
- InkaKing
yes. india might have their own reasons for helping BD.......they might have......but at the end of the day u will have to look at the end product and appreciate the offering!......if u think abt it, nothing in this world is 'sharthohin'........everyone tries to gain sth!!.....and thats not their fault!......its natural!
- AsifEminem
and as for the politician, Mujib will be always our greatest leader since the day he said “aibarer shongram moktir shongram……”he inspired us through the victory…BUT it’s the people who fought the war giving everything they had, so when some people call him the father of nation, this is too much cause each of the individual who made the sacrifice for our freedom is a father/mother of the nation NOT HIM ALONE. People contributed much more then he did.
and what Mujid and specially his family did after the freedom, creation of Bakshal and their abuse of power is simply a disgrace and unforgivable.
- InkaKing
For whatever reason India helped Bangladesh in war is out of question now! Bengalis achieved glorious victory, own country & flag!!! still what is bangladesh today? where does it stand? talking abt freedom......other than the Bengali, majority ppl says its all because of India who helped them to achieve their freedom! as there is so much lawlesness & vandalism today. it is strange that history is full of repetition, but we never learn from history!!
- sharmin
One thing i know that why india helped us is because they didn't want to see pakistani in both east and west side so that might be big problem for the india to win the war against them (Paki)...Pakis big plan was to attack india from both side but that didn't happen...
- thanda_pathor
France helped the United States win Independence from Britain. WWII helped India and Pakistan speed up Independence from a weakened Britain. India helped weaken Pakistan so Bangladesh could be free.But in each case, the liberation and bloodshed came from within. Otherwise the end result would have been like Bush liberating Iraq.Pakistan lost amazingly fast because they could not afford to fight India on two fronts and alos quell the Muktijoddha's efforts inside Bangladesh.If India had entered the war eariler then the genocide could have been averted so the loss of life could have been avoided.If India had not entered the war, the end result would have still been the same but the loss of life would have been greater.It was a unique situation. I don't think any Prime Minister apart from Indira Gandhi would have readily attacked Pakistan (without a formal declaration of war)... I don't think it would have happened at any other time in the history of the subcontinent.
- antorjal_surfer
I dont understand why we bengalis are soo reluctent to talk about our hisory??? This discussion just shows that how much we differ in opinion on such a huge event of our existence. It also proves how confused we are.
Than if we dont talk about it than may be there will be a time when ppl will say that "It would have been better if we stayed with pakistan!! "
May be the confusion is arising because of dose from currupted history. May be its time that we get in touch with our root to find wher we come from...
- attar-khoje
I first heard the phrase ' we created you' from two undergraduate Indians guys. I thought to myself these are few horrible people - believing in the goodness of the mass people. But the numbers kept rising and I thought have I been missing something in my history lesson for all these years. I remembered when I was in my 9th grade the infamous Malek Sir of Lab school, during one of his private tuitions, told us that it was indeed India that liberated Bangladesh and like many of us would think I thought he is nothing but a Rajakar ! But now after all these years I hear the same thing again and this time it's from the Indians !! Hmmm...Rajakar Indians !?!
After being humiliated and mocked at by various Bharotio Lokjon with the same proud statement I finally asked my closest Indian friend here about the creation thing and to my suprise he said "oh yeah yeah I heard back home...people say that we created you". So it's definitely not a one off thing then. It's a national preaching (propaganda ?) that Bangladesh is nothing but a war ( not love) child with Pakistan from India's point of view. So what about the history books that we memorized so far ? All cover up ? By the way, don't ask a Tamil or a Shikh about general Bharotio Monovab simply beacuse they don't walk in the mainstream and have a bitter clash with the central government. Coming to that point soon.
Few days back I was watching a documentary on the assault of the Shikh Temple in Punjab during Indira Gandhi's time. The Shikhs, after years of oppression, started demanding for a independent state "Khalistan". The leader of the rebel group was sheltering in the Golden Temple and Indira Gandhi , to capture the notorious rebel, ordered to cut off all the communiucation links to Punjab from the rest of the world and sent hundreds of troops to put an end to the Khalistan demand. The fight continued for the whole night and at the end, early in the morning, the army bombed the main gate of the Temple using a tank and killed the guy. After this incident Skikhs were tortured and burnt live all over India. As a result Indira Gandhi was killed by her own Shikh body guards. But then again the Shikhs were tortured mercilessly (http://www.dalitstan.org/journal/rights/103/240594.html , http://indianterrorism.bravepages.com/khalistanindex.htm) . I was asking my dear friend ( Ram Deshmukh) why they didn't give freedom to Shikh people. His response was " we can't afford to ...it's the most prosperous state in India...why would we give up part of our country ?" True, very true but then why did you help Bangladesh to get freedom. In response he simply smiled. The same thing goes for Kashmir. When asked why don't you let it be Independent ? The common answer is " It's too small to run own it's own...It's in our blood. We cannot let it go". Yeah ! true again, I guess India loves to help the freedom seeking people ! But It doesn't like other countries helping freedom seekers( The common complaint about Bangladesh now is that BD is helping the North-east rebels of India. The rebels have regular meetings in Dhaka !! ) Goodness me ! A treat of its own medicine !
The latest offence came when my wife visited the local GP. The GP is a muslim Indian from Hydrabad. Knowing that she is from Bangladesh, he said " Oh Bangladesh...we liberated you! " She had an argument about it with the doctor and when she came back told me the story. I wasn't so shocked this time and thought of doing some research on the whole issue. I found some interesting stuff. Let me share the 'da vinci code' with you !
1. Bangladesh war secrets revealed ( Full Text: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/2619317.stm )
I was searching for a clue on the creation of Bangladesh issue and the first thing that I found was this report from BBC published published on 1 january 2003."Secret British official papers from 30 years ago shed new light on the bloody confrontation between India and Pakistan in 1971.The papers show that the US administration believed that India was about to dismember Pakistan. The papers include secret transcripts of a summit meeting between the US and British leaders in December that year....Beyond South Asia, many people saw it as a freedom struggle in which India played a helpful role against an oppressive military hierarchy in West Pakistan, led by General Yahya Khan.But the transcripts of talks between the Indian Prime Minister, Indira Gandhi, and Mr Heath, and of the Heath-Nixon summit in Bermuda, show it was more than that. Mrs Gandhi, on a visit to Britain, told Mr Heath of the pressure in her cabinet for her to take Pakistani territory and not return it. "
2. Full Text : http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/GF23Df04.html
"The US State Department recently declassified some of the Nixon White House tapes and secret documents that bring to light the way in which the Nixon administration went about the Bangladesh saga, reflecting the potential of mindsets and personal equations taking precedence over ground realities in White House decisionmaking. ...... India had completely given up on the US. In August 1971, it ended its non-aligned stance and signed the Treaty of Peace, Friendship and Cooperation with the Soviet Union to safeguard itself against any American intervention. At the end of October, Indira Gandhi embarked on a tour of Moscow, Washington and several Western capitals to assess the international mood. It is widely believed that she had already planned to attack East Pakistan before this public relations tour. Nixon and Kissinger met at the Oval Office on the morning of November 5 to discuss the president's conversation with Indira on the previous day. Kissinger's assessment: "While she was a bitch, we got what we wanted ... She will not be able to go home and say that the United States didn't give her a warm reception and therefore in despair she's got to go to war." Replied Nixon: "We really slobbered over the old witch." After she got home, the "old witch" wrote to Nixon: "I sincerely hope that your clear vision will guide relations between our two democracies and will help us to come closer. It will always be our effort to clear any misunderstanding and not to allow temporary differences to impede the strengthening of our friendship." Within a day of Gandhi's return on November 21, Indian forces attacked East Pakistan at five key areas. Yahya's 70,000 soldiers deployed in the East were hopelessly outnumbered against the 200,000 Indian troops and the Mukti Bahini, Bengali guerrilla freedom fighters. Within 10 days, India had completely taken over the East. On December 16, after a final genocidal burst, Pakistan surrendered unconditionally.
3. No Comments ! Just see the title !!
The liberator of Bangladesh The Statesman - Kolkata,India
AMONG the most celebrated photographs in India’s military archives is that of the surrender at Dhaka in 1971. Holding centre stage at the ceremony recorded in that picture is Lt -Gen. Jagjit Singh Aurora, and rightly so. Not merely because it was to him that Lt Gen A Niazi, head of the Pakistan army in erstwhile East Pakistan submitted the instrument of surrender, but because it was under his command that the Indian land forces in the Eastern Theatre fought the war that give birth to a new, independent nation.---- Keith Flory
4. Response from Shafik Rehman ( Jai Jai Din)
It is true that Indian government, soldiers and the Indian public (they had to buy additional postage stamps to help build fund for Bangladesh Liberation War in1971 ) supported our freedom movement. Without them, our liberation would have been delayed but we would have been there anyway. But, that support does not mean that they won the war for us. We had to win it ourselves and that is what we did. The eastern states of India plus some southern Indian states aspire for independence today. Can they have it? Even if Pakistan and China support these liberation movements? No, they will not gain their independence. However, this is an Indian issue my point is that independence has to be earned by the people of the land. Nobody can donate independence.
- BandWidth
mmm...i think india helped finish the war quickly... India didn’t give it to us no one in their right mind can possibly India had a bigger input in the war than the muktibahini.
But the question comes to my mind the war definitely would have taken longer if it was not for India. Could we still have won? We all know USA would have had a much bigger input in to the war if it dragged on even a few months longer. Could Bangladesh have won then?
- not nablu
This is very true that India helped us during our great liberation war. But that was not simply out of sympathy, fraternity, ideological position or freindliness. There were some economic reasons, some political reasons, some geographical reasons. everybody knows it. But some people try to deny that India had some own interest in helping us to be free. We have to accept the reality as it is. But this does not mean that we should not have any kind of gratefulness for India. We the bangladeshi people certainly remember their helpful attitude. In fact if they did not get involved in the war, it would take much more time.
Well, all I have written so far is very true. But I have to add something.
As Bangladesh is a sovereign state, we have our own interests. Bangladesh is a seperate existence, an absolute one. Bangladesh is just another seperate state like India and India is no superior to Bangladesh. But in recent times India seems to be too much eager to be considered as a global super power and in some cases it is taking some abominable means for establishing their superiority. even some writers are blaming India for their imperialistic attitude. Their are BDR-BSF problems. Their are problems like `Nodi-Shongjog Chukti', their is Podda nodi problem (farakka badh) and some other issues in which india is taking a big-brother attitude. kinda bullying.
The political, economic strategies have been changed since 1971. We have to keep in mind the present reality, why the friendly indian people (kolkata-r manush, onno-rao) have turned into so malicious, why do they have such prejudice and many other present problems.
-Tahmidal
If you talk to Indians or Pakistanis they have more or less the same version of the 1971 war- a war between them that resulted in the creation of Bangladesh. India firmly believes that Bangladesh is their creation and the fact is supported by secret British and US official papers ( see my previous post) . The Pakistanis blame the Indians for taking part of their country. It's only in Bangladesh we have a totally different history of 1971. strange , huh ?
Let's just forget everything and just stick to the age old theory of 'Helping Hand'. As a sign of gratitude , shoudn't we have a monument in Dhaka for the thousands of Indian soldiers who laid their lives for our freedom ? That's the least we can do to say thanks to India and her people. How on earth no leader in our 35 years history took this intiative or do they feel the people might react in a strange way when the 'truth' comes out ? The Indian part in our freedom struggle has been cleverly engineered by the historians and then nicely shaved off by the great media. It's time we show respect to the ones who deserve it and face the history - that's the only way we can get rid of our identity crisis.
- BandWidth
I believe we got freedom the moment we stood up and said we want freedom!
- SafirXP
Of course yes, because we (general public) against a military power! ordinary, everday folks fought against a military and defeated them. After 9 months, they were losing to us, then they attack India to get things messy and officially resigns. Its a pity that WE did all the major fightings and defeated yet we could not be part of the surrender.
So hell yah! If we could fought for that long, and driven them out of BD, we could have won regardless, maybe just a little longer. That's all.
I hope you're not saying, it would have been "impossible" without Indian help!
- where_my_lungi
.......we had the inspiration, we had the srpirit..and we had a just cause BUT we didnt have the means to win a war.....and India and Russia made it happen...I hope you will see the connection...
- attar-khoje
In 71, compared to Bangladesh, Pakistan was so powerful country and had two super powers (US and China) as their allies. Sure no one can give freedom to others, one has to achieve it; but like many others, I still have doubt, without India’s direct help how long we could have survived against the brutally powerful pak armies? Still, Palestine is fighting against another brutal force without seeing any light at the end of the tunnel
- rangamati
That’s exactly what I am also saying…but there are some ppl filled with ego, can’t accept the facts. They think accepting it will degrade the spirit of our freedom movement. They think we gonna loose our pride to India…LOL..what a bummer..!!!
- attar-khoje
yes, we should not deny the truth. whether we deny it or not, people (foreigners) know the fact. and yet, we must have to courage to accept the fact. Emotion will take us nowhere... since our independence, we have been floating in the occean of emotions. where are we now?
Personally, I also not sure how much truth lies behind this quote "We helped India to achieve our freedom?"
- rangamati
From what I know, it seems impossible that Pakistan would have been defeated by the "East Pakistanis" alone. In the 9 month period, the Pakistanis killed 1.5+ million people. Can't even imagine the damage they'd have done if the war went on for 5-7-whatever years.Nobody knows for certain how things would have went had it not been for India, but thank God we didn't need to find out. I think Attar made the point that there is no shame in acknowleging the debt of gratitude we owe India for her help at the time.
- ezdeath
As you can see the confusions are everywhere. The fact might have lost forever and what we should have or could have known might have been lost or hidden forever. I feel like singing a Bob Dylan's song. This song matches perfectly with the whole 1971 scenario.
"There must be some way out of here," said the joker to the thief,
"There's too much confusion, I can't get no relief.Businessmen, they drink my wine, plowmen dig my earth,
None of them along the line know what any of it is worth."
"No reason to get excited," the thief, he kindly spoke,
"There are many here among us who feel that life is but a joke.
But you and I, we've been through that, and this is not our fate,
So let us not talk falsely now, the hour is getting late."
All along the watchtower, princes kept the viewWhile all the women came and went, barefoot servants, too.
Outside in the distance a wildcat did growl,Two riders were approaching, the wind began to howl.
Copyright © 1968; renewed 1996 Dwarf Music
no
------------- 35 --------- 71.43%yes
--------------- 14 ----------- 28.57%The above is a poll result from AmaderGaan - a music site for the young generation Bangladeshis both home and abroad. As you can see most think India did not give us freedon but a striking one-third do believe that India did give us the freedom and without them we would have never gained our freedom.
It's good to see that the young generations are discusiing such issues which are often ignored or hidden back home. I have faced myself with loads of embrassing situations when many Indians claimed that they created us. Confused and shocked , I went back to learn history in a different light and found with utter disbelief that India was the key player in the war and we were just helping them. My Earlier post on the 'Creation of Bangladesh' explores the myth and reality of the 1971 war. See also the secret British official documents : Bangladesh war secrets revealed ( Full Text: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/2619317.stm ) and the secret US official documents ( Full Text : http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/GF23Df04.html )
The most irritating thing is that even after all these years we have failed to pay the due respect to the Indians. None of the media, discussions or the intellectuals in Bangaldesh say a single word on the Indian part in the war. Very sad , isn't it ?
Anyway , below are some interesting comments from various new generation Bangladeshis in the poll forum. Take a look.
No, I don't think India gave us freedom because they didn't come and participate in our war for freedom. I guess the reason why those chatters are saying it is because India did train Bangladeshis to use rifles and stuff. In that respect, they did do that favor for us (even though political propaganda is implicated there)...but NO, India didn't give us freedom.
- crazyyou23
no one can give someone ( i mean a country here ) their freedom on a golden platter. u have to earn it, and likewise we earned it after a huge deal of sacrifice. but the fact remains u can not write history without mentioning the friends who stood behind you, provided you with shelter,food and in our case got involved in a full frontal battel against our enemy and shed blood. nothwithstanding the world politics that surrounded (including india's own benefit having a divided pakistan) our fight for independence, india did have a huge impact in our independence, and like any other self respecting country we should acknowledge that with utmost gratitude.
- ifti69
It's the nature of arrogant people to find excuses for talking down to people. Because Bangladesh is almost exclusively reknown worldwide because of its poverty and lack of development, it gets targeted with such rhetoric...Until Bangladesh becomes a rich and productive country that no longer relies on aid, we'll hear this kind of nonsense.
Back on topic...Bangladesh declared its independence of its own will. India took advantage of the conflict as a means of weakening Pakistan, its rival. While we owe thanks to India for their support in our struggle, whatever their actual reasons, it isn't them who gave us anything. A situation erupted in which both the people of future Bangladesh and the Indians would benefit from Pakistan's defeat in a war. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. That's the beginning and the end of it.
- ezdeath
Well I am not sure how to answer this question but I do acknowledge that India Played a Major role in our liberation war. It doesn’t matter what their intension was. All I care is that they bared our suffering/sorrow and stood beside us. Without their help we might have turned out to be another Vietnam fighting for yearssss. Sometime I wonder if Pakis could kill around 3 million innocent ppl, raping 200 thousand and making one million handicapped in 9 month THAN what could they have done in year 2 or 3 ???
The most powerful countries like USA, China were against us and we had no organized military. Could we have won the war with bamboo sticks and rocks? Palestine is still struggling for freedom and its been ages.Over 10000 Indian solders died in our war. They were spending one Million dollar every day to give food and shelter to refugees. R Osrer kotha nahoy Bad-e dilam…
Bipoder Bondhu-e ashol bondhu…..kintu amar mote amra oi bondhutter jothartho morjada dite pari nai. Amra ekta Hingsha-Biddeshe jorjorito Jaati. Bipode manusher kach thika shahajjo nei, kintu obosthar ektu unnoti hoile-e chinta korte shuru kori shahajjo-karir shartho ki chilo!! Akhono desher manusher mode ai mentality dekte pai. khubi kharap lage...
- attar-khoje
yes they did. without the help from India, it was merely impossible for us to get our freedom
- mrittunjoy
india's help to the mukti juddho was two fold-providing training and logistical support to the freedom fighters from bd -and also to send its own army deep into foreign territory to fight this battle.the treaty and surrender at dhaka was signed in font of an indian general(gen manekshaw).
however,now the flip side-the geopolitical equation of the items were such that india had to intervene in the matter-it didnt really have a choice-so for the govenrment it was a practical decision.but what about thousands of indian soldiers who died there on foreign soil?do they deserve this will u go and tell their sons and grand sons that no ur father didnt die for a good cause -no we dont think his life helped us in anyway.do they deserve that?
bangladesh earned their own freedom(as every natino must) but to deny that indian soldiers helped them,fought shoulder to shoulder with them,shed blood and made it all happen quicker and more easily -is to turn ur back on history.
- partha
I always felt India got involved for two reasons. One because of the number of refugees that crossed into their territory, and two, to get back at Pakistan. Hell, they might even have done it to establish credibiilty as a nation, considering how much their pride was wounded during partition and that they were pretty much a fledgling state at that time.
Freedom or not, I still believe they had a hand in Sheikh Mujib's assassination.
- Anodyne
i think that refugee problem was the more important factor anodyne.
about mujib's assasination -well mujib (and now haseena) was considered pro indian,tai mone hoy na otate indiar haath chilo.but then who can understand politics.(and certainly indira gandhi had by that time beocme the devil incarnate from the bharat mata of 1971)wasn't haseena in india itself during the assassination?(or have i got my facts wrong?)
- partha
NObody denies that people took shelter in India, locals provided foods and clothes and we must be grateful for that. But to suggest it was because of them, we acquired freedom, is something I strongly disagree with. You're right about US and China were against our independence, but it was actually Russia who supplied major arms THROUGH India. Do you think they were in a position to supply arms? This is very important to note.
Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that they were "silent observer" at the begining, they weren't opposing our freedom for obvious reason, but they also didn't offer help first hand. Someone mentioned, "my enemye's enemy is my friend", that's the most likely case for them to get involved. It wasn't until the late period of the war when the Pakistanis were losing and they attacked India as well. AFTER that officially India got involved.
Willingly or unwillingly they had to cooperate with us, and we're thankful for it. But when people say it was because of India we acquired freedom, is just plain wrong. Remember we didn't have any conventional army like Pakistan did, it was ordinary people fighting with any means they had access to. India's help certainly speeded up or shortened the length of ongoing war, that's all.
Would we have become independent without their help? Of course, but perhaps it would have been elongated.
- where_my_lungi
Yes I here you bro…. I also agree with you that some people tent get obsessed with India, but obsession in both ways might not be the correct answer/thinking also. I think it’s impossible to answer the Question If we could have gotten the freedom without India and Russia’s help or not. Because we are trying to drag a conclusion based on something which never took place. So it will always be an opinion which comes from gut feelings/pride/ego. Its not a tenable thing to base our argument on.
Definitely the freedom was achieved because of the determination and sacrifices of our brother and sister. But we also need to acknowledge those friends who also bared our pain and supported along the way.
There is no such thing as free meal in this world. Even our parents who are supporting us all the way also aspects something which is satisfactory to them. Now if we talk about justification of the demands than that’s another issue. But were we in a situation to bargain? I think not.
A Country’s independence only doesn’t rely on its internal war/conflict. There are lot other issues like world recognition; support from UN and also the media. It’s more like a team work. Who was representing us in the UN that time ? It was India who was facing all the criticism from big media of USA and UK and they are the ones who pleaded to the world to investigate the issue and the genocide that was taking place. They are the ones who conveyed our message to the world legal body. I think you will get a picture of it once I upload the documentary.
I am not saying that we should praise India to such level that gives away our country’s wellbeing. But we are always more considerable towards our friends in life right ? It works both ways and that’s how a good relation develops. I think we could have taken our friendship to the next level but I guess some of us were too much controlled by their pride and ego for some reason.
I think we just need to get our facts right and stop the game of accusation and be more appreciative to others effort. We also need to stop dragging definite conclusion based on pure guesswork such as what could happen.
- attar-khoje
No, India didnt gave us freedom nor did anyonenot even Mujib, Zia or any politicians
in 71 all those unknown people who fought with sticks bamboos and lousy guns, who lost their lives, relatives, houses and dignity these are the people who gave us freedom.
India helped us, thats true, during 71 they gave us shelter , we acknowledge that, and we also know that India strategically gained a lot from Bangladesh freedom.
Israel also helped us during 71, they send food and materials for the Bangladeshi refugees in India. We appreciate that.
But india should know that we beat Pakistan not because we would like to be a colony of India. so all those indians or pakistanies who argue about our freedom and dignity, please let them know that I would be glad to open my zipper and piss on their faces........that will cool them off
- InkaKing
yes. india might have their own reasons for helping BD.......they might have......but at the end of the day u will have to look at the end product and appreciate the offering!......if u think abt it, nothing in this world is 'sharthohin'........everyone tries to gain sth!!.....and thats not their fault!......its natural!
- AsifEminem
and as for the politician, Mujib will be always our greatest leader since the day he said “aibarer shongram moktir shongram……”he inspired us through the victory…BUT it’s the people who fought the war giving everything they had, so when some people call him the father of nation, this is too much cause each of the individual who made the sacrifice for our freedom is a father/mother of the nation NOT HIM ALONE. People contributed much more then he did.
and what Mujid and specially his family did after the freedom, creation of Bakshal and their abuse of power is simply a disgrace and unforgivable.
- InkaKing
For whatever reason India helped Bangladesh in war is out of question now! Bengalis achieved glorious victory, own country & flag!!! still what is bangladesh today? where does it stand? talking abt freedom......other than the Bengali, majority ppl says its all because of India who helped them to achieve their freedom! as there is so much lawlesness & vandalism today. it is strange that history is full of repetition, but we never learn from history!!
- sharmin
One thing i know that why india helped us is because they didn't want to see pakistani in both east and west side so that might be big problem for the india to win the war against them (Paki)...Pakis big plan was to attack india from both side but that didn't happen...
- thanda_pathor
France helped the United States win Independence from Britain. WWII helped India and Pakistan speed up Independence from a weakened Britain. India helped weaken Pakistan so Bangladesh could be free.But in each case, the liberation and bloodshed came from within. Otherwise the end result would have been like Bush liberating Iraq.Pakistan lost amazingly fast because they could not afford to fight India on two fronts and alos quell the Muktijoddha's efforts inside Bangladesh.If India had entered the war eariler then the genocide could have been averted so the loss of life could have been avoided.If India had not entered the war, the end result would have still been the same but the loss of life would have been greater.It was a unique situation. I don't think any Prime Minister apart from Indira Gandhi would have readily attacked Pakistan (without a formal declaration of war)... I don't think it would have happened at any other time in the history of the subcontinent.
- antorjal_surfer
I dont understand why we bengalis are soo reluctent to talk about our hisory??? This discussion just shows that how much we differ in opinion on such a huge event of our existence. It also proves how confused we are.
Than if we dont talk about it than may be there will be a time when ppl will say that "It would have been better if we stayed with pakistan!! "
May be the confusion is arising because of dose from currupted history. May be its time that we get in touch with our root to find wher we come from...
- attar-khoje
I first heard the phrase ' we created you' from two undergraduate Indians guys. I thought to myself these are few horrible people - believing in the goodness of the mass people. But the numbers kept rising and I thought have I been missing something in my history lesson for all these years. I remembered when I was in my 9th grade the infamous Malek Sir of Lab school, during one of his private tuitions, told us that it was indeed India that liberated Bangladesh and like many of us would think I thought he is nothing but a Rajakar ! But now after all these years I hear the same thing again and this time it's from the Indians !! Hmmm...Rajakar Indians !?!
After being humiliated and mocked at by various Bharotio Lokjon with the same proud statement I finally asked my closest Indian friend here about the creation thing and to my suprise he said "oh yeah yeah I heard back home...people say that we created you". So it's definitely not a one off thing then. It's a national preaching (propaganda ?) that Bangladesh is nothing but a war ( not love) child with Pakistan from India's point of view. So what about the history books that we memorized so far ? All cover up ? By the way, don't ask a Tamil or a Shikh about general Bharotio Monovab simply beacuse they don't walk in the mainstream and have a bitter clash with the central government. Coming to that point soon.
Few days back I was watching a documentary on the assault of the Shikh Temple in Punjab during Indira Gandhi's time. The Shikhs, after years of oppression, started demanding for a independent state "Khalistan". The leader of the rebel group was sheltering in the Golden Temple and Indira Gandhi , to capture the notorious rebel, ordered to cut off all the communiucation links to Punjab from the rest of the world and sent hundreds of troops to put an end to the Khalistan demand. The fight continued for the whole night and at the end, early in the morning, the army bombed the main gate of the Temple using a tank and killed the guy. After this incident Skikhs were tortured and burnt live all over India. As a result Indira Gandhi was killed by her own Shikh body guards. But then again the Shikhs were tortured mercilessly (http://www.dalitstan.org/journal/rights/103/240594.html , http://indianterrorism.bravepages.com/khalistanindex.htm) . I was asking my dear friend ( Ram Deshmukh) why they didn't give freedom to Shikh people. His response was " we can't afford to ...it's the most prosperous state in India...why would we give up part of our country ?" True, very true but then why did you help Bangladesh to get freedom. In response he simply smiled. The same thing goes for Kashmir. When asked why don't you let it be Independent ? The common answer is " It's too small to run own it's own...It's in our blood. We cannot let it go". Yeah ! true again, I guess India loves to help the freedom seeking people ! But It doesn't like other countries helping freedom seekers( The common complaint about Bangladesh now is that BD is helping the North-east rebels of India. The rebels have regular meetings in Dhaka !! ) Goodness me ! A treat of its own medicine !
The latest offence came when my wife visited the local GP. The GP is a muslim Indian from Hydrabad. Knowing that she is from Bangladesh, he said " Oh Bangladesh...we liberated you! " She had an argument about it with the doctor and when she came back told me the story. I wasn't so shocked this time and thought of doing some research on the whole issue. I found some interesting stuff. Let me share the 'da vinci code' with you !
1. Bangladesh war secrets revealed ( Full Text: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/2619317.stm )
I was searching for a clue on the creation of Bangladesh issue and the first thing that I found was this report from BBC published published on 1 january 2003."Secret British official papers from 30 years ago shed new light on the bloody confrontation between India and Pakistan in 1971.The papers show that the US administration believed that India was about to dismember Pakistan. The papers include secret transcripts of a summit meeting between the US and British leaders in December that year....Beyond South Asia, many people saw it as a freedom struggle in which India played a helpful role against an oppressive military hierarchy in West Pakistan, led by General Yahya Khan.But the transcripts of talks between the Indian Prime Minister, Indira Gandhi, and Mr Heath, and of the Heath-Nixon summit in Bermuda, show it was more than that. Mrs Gandhi, on a visit to Britain, told Mr Heath of the pressure in her cabinet for her to take Pakistani territory and not return it. "
2. Full Text : http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/GF23Df04.html
"The US State Department recently declassified some of the Nixon White House tapes and secret documents that bring to light the way in which the Nixon administration went about the Bangladesh saga, reflecting the potential of mindsets and personal equations taking precedence over ground realities in White House decisionmaking. ...... India had completely given up on the US. In August 1971, it ended its non-aligned stance and signed the Treaty of Peace, Friendship and Cooperation with the Soviet Union to safeguard itself against any American intervention. At the end of October, Indira Gandhi embarked on a tour of Moscow, Washington and several Western capitals to assess the international mood. It is widely believed that she had already planned to attack East Pakistan before this public relations tour. Nixon and Kissinger met at the Oval Office on the morning of November 5 to discuss the president's conversation with Indira on the previous day. Kissinger's assessment: "While she was a bitch, we got what we wanted ... She will not be able to go home and say that the United States didn't give her a warm reception and therefore in despair she's got to go to war." Replied Nixon: "We really slobbered over the old witch." After she got home, the "old witch" wrote to Nixon: "I sincerely hope that your clear vision will guide relations between our two democracies and will help us to come closer. It will always be our effort to clear any misunderstanding and not to allow temporary differences to impede the strengthening of our friendship." Within a day of Gandhi's return on November 21, Indian forces attacked East Pakistan at five key areas. Yahya's 70,000 soldiers deployed in the East were hopelessly outnumbered against the 200,000 Indian troops and the Mukti Bahini, Bengali guerrilla freedom fighters. Within 10 days, India had completely taken over the East. On December 16, after a final genocidal burst, Pakistan surrendered unconditionally.
3. No Comments ! Just see the title !!
The liberator of Bangladesh The Statesman - Kolkata,India
AMONG the most celebrated photographs in India’s military archives is that of the surrender at Dhaka in 1971. Holding centre stage at the ceremony recorded in that picture is Lt -Gen. Jagjit Singh Aurora, and rightly so. Not merely because it was to him that Lt Gen A Niazi, head of the Pakistan army in erstwhile East Pakistan submitted the instrument of surrender, but because it was under his command that the Indian land forces in the Eastern Theatre fought the war that give birth to a new, independent nation.---- Keith Flory
4. Response from Shafik Rehman ( Jai Jai Din)
It is true that Indian government, soldiers and the Indian public (they had to buy additional postage stamps to help build fund for Bangladesh Liberation War in1971 ) supported our freedom movement. Without them, our liberation would have been delayed but we would have been there anyway. But, that support does not mean that they won the war for us. We had to win it ourselves and that is what we did. The eastern states of India plus some southern Indian states aspire for independence today. Can they have it? Even if Pakistan and China support these liberation movements? No, they will not gain their independence. However, this is an Indian issue my point is that independence has to be earned by the people of the land. Nobody can donate independence.
- BandWidth
mmm...i think india helped finish the war quickly... India didn’t give it to us no one in their right mind can possibly India had a bigger input in the war than the muktibahini.
But the question comes to my mind the war definitely would have taken longer if it was not for India. Could we still have won? We all know USA would have had a much bigger input in to the war if it dragged on even a few months longer. Could Bangladesh have won then?
- not nablu
This is very true that India helped us during our great liberation war. But that was not simply out of sympathy, fraternity, ideological position or freindliness. There were some economic reasons, some political reasons, some geographical reasons. everybody knows it. But some people try to deny that India had some own interest in helping us to be free. We have to accept the reality as it is. But this does not mean that we should not have any kind of gratefulness for India. We the bangladeshi people certainly remember their helpful attitude. In fact if they did not get involved in the war, it would take much more time.
Well, all I have written so far is very true. But I have to add something.
As Bangladesh is a sovereign state, we have our own interests. Bangladesh is a seperate existence, an absolute one. Bangladesh is just another seperate state like India and India is no superior to Bangladesh. But in recent times India seems to be too much eager to be considered as a global super power and in some cases it is taking some abominable means for establishing their superiority. even some writers are blaming India for their imperialistic attitude. Their are BDR-BSF problems. Their are problems like `Nodi-Shongjog Chukti', their is Podda nodi problem (farakka badh) and some other issues in which india is taking a big-brother attitude. kinda bullying.
The political, economic strategies have been changed since 1971. We have to keep in mind the present reality, why the friendly indian people (kolkata-r manush, onno-rao) have turned into so malicious, why do they have such prejudice and many other present problems.
-Tahmidal
If you talk to Indians or Pakistanis they have more or less the same version of the 1971 war- a war between them that resulted in the creation of Bangladesh. India firmly believes that Bangladesh is their creation and the fact is supported by secret British and US official papers ( see my previous post) . The Pakistanis blame the Indians for taking part of their country. It's only in Bangladesh we have a totally different history of 1971. strange , huh ?
Let's just forget everything and just stick to the age old theory of 'Helping Hand'. As a sign of gratitude , shoudn't we have a monument in Dhaka for the thousands of Indian soldiers who laid their lives for our freedom ? That's the least we can do to say thanks to India and her people. How on earth no leader in our 35 years history took this intiative or do they feel the people might react in a strange way when the 'truth' comes out ? The Indian part in our freedom struggle has been cleverly engineered by the historians and then nicely shaved off by the great media. It's time we show respect to the ones who deserve it and face the history - that's the only way we can get rid of our identity crisis.
- BandWidth
I believe we got freedom the moment we stood up and said we want freedom!
- SafirXP
Of course yes, because we (general public) against a military power! ordinary, everday folks fought against a military and defeated them. After 9 months, they were losing to us, then they attack India to get things messy and officially resigns. Its a pity that WE did all the major fightings and defeated yet we could not be part of the surrender.
So hell yah! If we could fought for that long, and driven them out of BD, we could have won regardless, maybe just a little longer. That's all.
I hope you're not saying, it would have been "impossible" without Indian help!
- where_my_lungi
.......we had the inspiration, we had the srpirit..and we had a just cause BUT we didnt have the means to win a war.....and India and Russia made it happen...I hope you will see the connection...
- attar-khoje
In 71, compared to Bangladesh, Pakistan was so powerful country and had two super powers (US and China) as their allies. Sure no one can give freedom to others, one has to achieve it; but like many others, I still have doubt, without India’s direct help how long we could have survived against the brutally powerful pak armies? Still, Palestine is fighting against another brutal force without seeing any light at the end of the tunnel
- rangamati
That’s exactly what I am also saying…but there are some ppl filled with ego, can’t accept the facts. They think accepting it will degrade the spirit of our freedom movement. They think we gonna loose our pride to India…LOL..what a bummer..!!!
- attar-khoje
yes, we should not deny the truth. whether we deny it or not, people (foreigners) know the fact. and yet, we must have to courage to accept the fact. Emotion will take us nowhere... since our independence, we have been floating in the occean of emotions. where are we now?
Personally, I also not sure how much truth lies behind this quote "We helped India to achieve our freedom?"
- rangamati
From what I know, it seems impossible that Pakistan would have been defeated by the "East Pakistanis" alone. In the 9 month period, the Pakistanis killed 1.5+ million people. Can't even imagine the damage they'd have done if the war went on for 5-7-whatever years.Nobody knows for certain how things would have went had it not been for India, but thank God we didn't need to find out. I think Attar made the point that there is no shame in acknowleging the debt of gratitude we owe India for her help at the time.
- ezdeath
As you can see the confusions are everywhere. The fact might have lost forever and what we should have or could have known might have been lost or hidden forever. I feel like singing a Bob Dylan's song. This song matches perfectly with the whole 1971 scenario.
"There must be some way out of here," said the joker to the thief,
"There's too much confusion, I can't get no relief.Businessmen, they drink my wine, plowmen dig my earth,
None of them along the line know what any of it is worth."
"No reason to get excited," the thief, he kindly spoke,
"There are many here among us who feel that life is but a joke.
But you and I, we've been through that, and this is not our fate,
So let us not talk falsely now, the hour is getting late."
All along the watchtower, princes kept the viewWhile all the women came and went, barefoot servants, too.
Outside in the distance a wildcat did growl,Two riders were approaching, the wind began to howl.
Copyright © 1968; renewed 1996 Dwarf Music
posted by Faylasuf at 8:03 PM
27 Comments:
It's really sad tht most of the present generation of Bangladeshies think tht India had no role in the formation of Bangladesh.
It really shows the ignorance (in terms of historical knowledge) tht the present generation is living in.
Remember one thing, a true friend is one who never forgets the help tht he recieved from a friend.
Well Sri harsha..I don't think we should really feel sad about what the present generation of bangladesh thinks about India who actually helped them to achieve freedom! I mean no offence but where in the world map of significane does this country even lie. Millions of people dying because of floods or religious extremism. There is no comparison at all between India and pakistan/bangladesh. We are on world map as an upcoming power and so much contribution to the world as a society whereas with the latter countries well.. needless to say anything about that!!
Hi,
I am an Indian, and I went through most of your post. And I am surprised that while you find that many Bangladeshis are not aware of Indian role in liberation war, I found that versions of most (except very few who used unprintable languages) are correct to my understanding. Its just interpretation that differs. To summarise, yes, India did help, but I don't think that ONLY India won. Second, we had our admittedly "un-gentlemanly" political reasons which lots of people summed up nicely (broken pakistan, Indira Gandhi's internal ratings, etc.). One thing that got me thinking is someone's comment on India's help in liberating someone while opposing Bangladesh's help in "liberating" Indian north-east and Pakistan's help in "liberaing" Kashmir! (Double quotes show my biased view on these issue :) While it would be futile, in defence of India, I can perhaps say that liberation war in Banlgadesh and Kashmir/North-East are different in terms of who wants freedom. I may be wrong (brainwashed?) but I (and most Indians, we) belive that people of Kashmir and North-East do not want to get out of India but some terrorists group for their own selfish purposes. India has opposed freedom to Punjab/Kashmir/Andhra Pradesh/North-East because of devision nature these events on Indian nationhood, and precedence in doing say, in which case probably we will end up seeing 10 pieces of India. However, I too do feel that Indians are not acknowledged enough in Banlgadesh for their role (for whatever reasons). While I am surprised to find Bangladeshis thinking Indian big-brotherly attitude (in SAARC, and others), Indians often feel, on the contrary, that Bangladesh is taking our softness (and we critisize our govt for not standing upto its neighbour either side) for granted, and being uncooperative in all ways. At least in versions of news I hear, BDR has killed BSF member(s) inhumanly and tortured and returned their body, and all we did was to have a flag-staff meeting (or whatever the term is) to show our protest. Indians are also not happy with treatment of Hindus in Banlgadesh, though Hindus (in India) being quite an unorganized lot (and I belive more tolerant as well) that we are, not much concerned and do not offer sufficient political clout.
I have tried to be honest here without any offence to anyone, and I hope I did not appear jingoist.
Well. There are two levels to the issue. One is of awareness - But perhaps people needn't be aware in terms of countries - as much as in terms of contexts. India participated in the effort because it made sense in terms of higher security - not out of the goodness of the Indian Government's heart.
Secondly, there is no need for Bangladesh to feel grateful to India. There is no obligation imposed on either country because of the series of events as they were - then. India and Bangladesh don't become true friends because of a war fought together. However they were partners for a particular cause, despite different intentions.
To Anon: Your attitude is disgusting. It's precisely people like who cannot relate to the South Asian identity and will suck up to the West - and want to be like them. Bangladesh is an important aspect of the South Asian identity - and to anyone who can't see the potential economic and human capital of Bangladesh: I call that shortsightedness.
I am a bengali who had roots from Chandpur,Comilla.I would ask bangladeshi friends who believe or don't believe in India's contribution to ponder on these questions
1. Why did my forefathers and many like them leave their native land and become a refugee in Independent India ?
2. Why do refugees come to India when anything goes wrong in Bangladesh ?
3. From my parents and grand parents who have seen Bangladesh,they said it was "Sonar Bangla", most fertile land yet there is no development, why ?
4. What kind of response is expected from people with similar background like mine,who struggled from their parent's misfoturnes and grew up knowing Bangladeshi's don't care about India's contribution ?
History is a slow teacher. We the current generation do not care how much impact a small event makes but looking behind and analyising them tells many things to guide us to the future.
Someone who lost her husband (he was in Indian Army) in 1971 visited Dhaka recently and was amazed to see no mention of India in the memorial there. One can imagine what she must have felt.
When Gen. Arora died, PM of Bangladesh did not deem it fit to pay tribute to the man who helped her country. No wonder Indians tend to think of Bangladesh as "ehsaan faramosh".
Regarding any ulterior motives India might have had - would you rather that they had done nothing and let your lot suffer? Like your new friend China did? Like the US did? "Don't squeeze Yaya at this time"...so wrote Nixon when his own man in Dhaka Mr. David Blood called upon him to do the right thing. David Blood was so disgusted that he resigned - look it up if you don't believe me. Hmmm...maybe that would have been fitting, no?
To say that India "helped" while Mukti Bahini did all the work would be an understatement of sorts. Decades from now, I hope the citizens of Bangladesh are ashamed of how their ancestors have rewritten history to distort the truth. People who change history never learn the lessons & are doomed to suffer it again...and what better example than Bangladesh to illustrate this.
Razib, I do not intrinsically wish ill for your country but unless people like you fight for truth I see no hope in that part of the world.
Lastly, I wonder why Bangladeshis in UK pass themselves as "from eastern part of India" when they meet a true blue Indian. Oh no, I am not making this up....have heard this 5 times already....and still counting.
Kind regards,
Manne
Hey Guys,
Aami tomako bhalo aashi. I too am from the good land of Bangladesh
We should be very happy that you are free and if you join hands with the economic development, we can do the same what Singapore does. Become the base of Incorporations catering to both India and the east asia.Both are powerful economies. Don't trust Pakistan as I have lived there. They hate our very existence.They just want we guys to be drawn into war in some form or other and become so miserable that we cease to exist.They are dreaming to play the middle man. Trust me friends, these Pakis will never help us.Look the way they are projecting us towards India.Economic Development in all spheres are the only way possible. Teach the people to be less of punk ass fanatics and start respecting each other.
Glory to Bangladesh
Death to Pakistan
On the 3rd of December 1971, the Pakistani Air Force (PAF) struck a number of Indian airfields in northern India. By midnight, India was officially at war with Pakistan. Two weeks later, the war was over. The Indian Army had overrun erstwhile East Pakistan (Bangladesh) and taken 93,000 POWs. It was one of the swiftest military campaigns in recent history…
2 weeks official war has given India the right to call this war as their biggest achievement. Now we hear that the last Indo-Pak war was fought in 1971.
What have our boys done then?
http://www.bujhi.com/?p=26#comments
Hello, sir
I must applaud you on this subject.
As an Indian whose family served in the Indian army for generations, I must say its outragious and appauling that most young Bangladeshis are not aware that de facto it was the Indian Army that liberated your country from the oppressors, aided by the Bangla freedom fighters.
I hope you educate your fellowmen as we have sacrified so many lifes for this cause.
Here is an excerpt of a neutral historic text on the Liberation War:
Undeterred by this setback, Mukti Bahini regrouped as they gained in strength and capability. Aided by the Indian government in West Bengal, the were equipped and trained to counter the Pakistan Army. As there was no action during the monsoon, it was seen by the Pakistan military brass as a weakening of the Bangladesh cause. However it was merely the lull before the storm. After sensing the magnitude of the issue, the army was beefed up as the troop strength was increased to more than 80,000. This caused a rise in tensions across the border as India realised the gravity of the situation. The Indian military were preparing for the eventual onslaught with the aid of the separatists and waited for the end of the monsoon season to enable easy passage. The Indians aimed to bypass the villages and towns and instead concentrate on the cities and the highways which ultimately would lead to the capture of Dhaka.
Pakistan decided to nullify such an attack and on December 3 launched a series of preemptive air strikes. The attack was modelled on the Operation Focus employed by Israel Air Force during the Six-Day War. However the plan failed to achieve the desired success and was seen as an open act of unprovoked aggression by the Indians. Indira Gandhi then ordered the immediate mobilisation of troops and launched the full scale invasion. This marked the official start of the India-Pak war with fighting commencing in West Pakistan. The Indian Army, far superior in numbers and equipment to that of Pakistan, executed a three-pronged pincer movement on Dhaka launched from the Indian states of West Bengal, Assam, and Tripura. In all these places the Mukti Bahini and the local Bengalis played a vital role in aiding the Indian Army. Many soldiers were ferried in the night by the locals across rivers and valuable information on the location and whereabouts of different military strongholds were gleaned. It was backed up by the Indian Air Force which achieved near air supremacy towards the end of the war as the entire East Pakistan airbase with all the flights were destroyed. The Indian Navy, also annihilated the eastern wing of the Pakistan Navy and blockaded the East Pakistan ports, thereby cutting off any escape routes for the stranded Pakistani warriors. The fledgling Bangladesh Navy (comprising officers and sailors who defected from Pakistan Navy) aided the Indians in the marine warfare, carrying out attacks, most notably Operation Jackpot.
Meanwhile, on the ground, nearly 3 brigades of Mukti Bahini along with the Indian forces fought in a conventional formation. This was supplemented by guerrilla style attacks on Pakistanis who were facing hostilities on land, air, water in both covert and overt ways. Undeterred, Pakistan tried to fight back and boost the sagging morale by incorporating the Special Services Group commandos in sabotage and rescue missions. This however could not stop the juggernaut of the invading columns whose speed and power were too much to contain for the Pakistan Army. On 16 December, within just 12 days, the capital Dacca fell to the Mitro Bahini — the allied forces. Lt. Gen. Niazi surrendered to the combined forces headed by its commander Lt. Gen. Jagjit Singh Aurora by signing the Instrument of Surrender at Ramna Racecourse, 16:31 Indian Standard Time. Bangladesh became liberated.
Hello Friends
I just went through the previous messages from Young generation of Bangladesh. It is really heart breaking and shocking to see that all most all messages are anti-indian. Bangladesh war was won becoz of the cooperation of Mukti bahani with Indian army. If india had ulterior motives against bangladesh then it could have made Bangladesh another state of indian union but however it chose to give BD independence even though india suffered massive collateral and economic losses. we don't want BD to be greatfull to india but atleast educate young generation about indian involvement in there freedom struggle. I do understand india is primarily Hindu nation may these is one of the reasons BD is refusing to accept india's claim of help. I don't really understand as to why BD is giving shelter to ULFA and other insurgents and there was post about kashmiries. let me give an insight of insurgent groups there
Lasker-e-tioba..it is based in pakistan ..its caders are from afganisthan
Hisbul.mujahiddin...it is based in pakistan..it is not an indiginous uprising..it is being fed and armed by isi....kasmir was peaceful state till 1986..when pakistan diverted afgab mujahiddin to kashmir to fight indian army..lots of people are being killed by terrorist in J & k..they tried to the same in punjab..but punjabies rejected the idea of joining with pakistan..india has so many states which are industrializing at an frantic pace..but J&K is still not developed that is becoz of insurgency..it is rare to see india army jawan patrolling streets in any city like bangalore or chennai becoz there is no terrorism there..India killed to birds in one bullet i.e., deintegration of pakistan and freedom to BD
continuation
without indian army BD would have been another afghanistan or palistain or iraq or dagesthan (chechenya) or baluchistan or jaffna ..so whats the problem in acknowledging indian help ???. Right now political leaders r trying to get closer pakistan..the same country that killed and raped thousands of woman..as well BD has denied india request for oil extraction ...as well road corridor to NE india.. and also denied permission to lay oil pipeline from Burma . all these things r being to appease murderers and rapist of innocent people of BD...it is upto BD to decide to join industrial india or join anarchic pakisthan to make BD powerfull
The Question was Did India Give BD Freedom..
You Decide..
1> Hundreds of thousands of refugees crossing over to India created a very very humonguous problem as India was already dealing with the repercussions of 1961 & 1965 wars with Pakistan and china could not handle any more refugees.
Kennedy, Senator Edward, "Crisis in South Asia - A report to the Subcommittee investigating the Problem of Refugees and Their Settlement, Submitted to U.S. Senate Judiciary Committee", November 1, 1971, U.S. Govt. Press, page 66. Sen. Kennedy wrote, "Field reports to the U.S. Government, countless eye-witness journalistic accounts, reports of International agencies such as World Bank and additional information available to the subcommittee document the reign of terror which grips East Bengal (East Pakistan). Hardest hit have been members of the hindu community who have been robbed of their lands and shops, systematically slaughtered, and in some places, painted with yellow patches marked 'H'. All of this has been officially sanctioned, ordered and implemented under martial law from Islamabad."
2> India always supported Mukti Bahini (infact was almost entirely responsible in it's arming)
3> PAF planes entered Indian airspace and bombed some military installations in India on December 3 1971, which, is when India "officially" stepped into the war.
4> Post Liberation of BD India strengthened BD navy and transferred 2 of it's own ships Namely INS AKSHAY and INS AJAY... which were then renamed to BNS PADMA and BNS SURMA...
http://www.bangladeshnavy.org/
5> India also transferred three captured Pakistani merchant vessels, ANWAR BAKSH, MADHUMATI and PASNI to Bangladesh as a gesture of goodwill in 1973-74
http://www.bangladeshnavy.org/
6> India Created BD Airforce by giving 3 of it's own planes to BD.. BAF... FYI.. BAF Was formed in Dhimapur, Nagaland (India)
http://www.scramble.nl/bd.htm
Indian Soldiers: 1,426 Deaths
3,611 Wounded (Official)
So much for the help India provided...
The Question was Did India Give BD Freedom..
You Decide..
1> Hundreds of thousands of refugees crossing over to India created a very very humonguous problem as India was already dealing with the repercussions of 1961 & 1965 wars with Pakistan and china could not handle any more refugees.
Kennedy, Senator Edward, "Crisis in South Asia - A report to the Subcommittee investigating the Problem of Refugees and Their Settlement, Submitted to U.S. Senate Judiciary Committee", November 1, 1971, U.S. Govt. Press, page 66. Sen. Kennedy wrote, "Field reports to the U.S. Government, countless eye-witness journalistic accounts, reports of International agencies such as World Bank and additional information available to the subcommittee document the reign of terror which grips East Bengal (East Pakistan). Hardest hit have been members of the hindu community who have been robbed of their lands and shops, systematically slaughtered, and in some places, painted with yellow patches marked 'H'. All of this has been officially sanctioned, ordered and implemented under martial law from Islamabad."
2> India always supported Mukti Bahini (infact was almost entirely responsible in it's arming)
3> PAF planes entered Indian airspace and bombed some military installations in India on December 3 1971, which, is when India "officially" stepped into the war.
4> Post Liberation of BD India strengthened BD navy and transferred 2 of it's own ships Namely INS AKSHAY and INS AJAY... which were then renamed to BNS PADMA and BNS SURMA...
http://www.bangladeshnavy.org/
5> India also transferred three captured Pakistani merchant vessels, ANWAR BAKSH, MADHUMATI and PASNI to Bangladesh as a gesture of goodwill in 1973-74
http://www.bangladeshnavy.org/
6> India Created BD Airforce by giving 3 of it's own planes to BD.. BAF... FYI.. BAF Was formed in Dhimapur, Nagaland (India)
http://www.scramble.nl/bd.htm
Indian Soldiers: 1,426 Deaths
3,611 Wounded (Official)
So much for the help India provided...
I have read the post and comments with interest. I agree with the views expressed by Attar-Khoje.
You may want to read my blog. I have just posted a book containing my experiences as a Freedom Fighter in 1971. It's available at
www.shahzamanm.blogpost.com
I have also addred a post titled, Role of Indian Army in Bangladesh Liberation War." My comments are based on facts.
Shahzaman Mozumder, Bir Protik
@anon posted at 5:30 PM
As soon as I read few words of your post, I knew you were Indian. Then you just confirmed it at the end.
Thanks.
As a muslim, I am deeply dissapointed and saddened by comments on this site. Indians got freedom from the British. We Muslims got freedom from the Hindus. Will we muslims never learn? Who did bangladesh get freedom from? Does a name really matter, whether its Pakistan or Bangladesh? Do you really believe India(Hindus) really care about muslims whether PAK or BANGLA? If that was true, there would not have been a need for Pakistan(east or west)in the first place. The name PAK was chosen because it does not denote a lanuage but is understood by all muslims.
As muslims, I am sure we can all relate to the pain & anguish felt by muslims regardless of borders, on what is happening in Iraq, Palestine, Kashmir, etc. Do you think the same emotions will be shared by the so called Indian friends?
What happened in 1971 was sheer stupidity by corrupt Leaders of both East & West Pak. The same is still happening in both countries even today. In order to hide their corrupt practices and mistrust of each other, these leaders pit their own public against each other.
India (devious by nature), took advantage of this weakness, fanned the feelings of hatred and used it to WEAKEN both brothers, East & West. I have read some utterly naive comments here that India Intended to WEAKEN (WEST) PAKISTAN only and wanted to free the East.
By helping to split they were able to kill two birds with one stone, Weakened two brothers and claimed cheap glory. Pakistan would not have lost the war, if it had not had to contend with the civil war between its own people. But then, cowardly India would not had the opportunity.
Brothers, can you Imagine India giving the Bangla People Independence in 1971 had they not fought to become East Pakistan in 1947. That is when the actual Independance was gained by people of both Pakistan and Bangladesh, What happened in 1971, was just a formality. If you believe, India is Bangladesh`s friend, just cast your mind to what happened to muslims in Gujarat recently and what is happening to your muslim brothers in Kashmir. You wont find any noble Indians setting them free. Remember, the plight of Palestinians and Iraqis, have you heard of any Indian voice speaking out about the attrocities there.
You will read and hear propoganda about attrocities commited by Pak on Bangla but rest assured 80% of that is fabricated by Leaders of the time to justify dismembering the country in collusion with the enemy. If you find that hard to swallow, just look at todays leaders because they are no different.
India did help during liberation war in 1971. I like to ask to find out about the truth feelings of mass Pakistani about the role of Yahiya Khan. I hard his sons/relatives are staying far from Pakistani general people for his role with bangli during 1971.
Zulfikar ali bhutto- urged Yahya to killed couple of thousand people then Bangali will STOP.
I know there are still in BD some elent like G. Azam's regime still here, they do not beleive in bangladesh though living here. So they love to say their father is Zinna who made Pakistan- who himself was not a practicing muslim- drinking wine etc.
One Tamilian had very offended comments which is not excceptable.
We fought for our country and did liberation and India help us that is true. I know you Tamilian even do not learn Indian national language HINDI. There I can't see a tamil is an INDIAN(?). may be they want also fight with TTL for freedom
?????????
it's okay.,i mean what's the point at least most of you know some history...see the fate of chinese students...they still think they defeated JAPAN while the whole world knows japan surrendered to america..and yes, i hate chinese
well most of us here in India still think that we won against Pakistan in 1971 and Not that we "liberated" you.
some bloggers here are saying that India is benefited by this...may be...but you should be grateful to those who built you a house by destroying a common enemy
India recently signs $ 1 billion credit to BD recently.We are really helping you from beginning..
..well, the atrocities on bd were true, nobody can deny that.
yes, india had its motives to assist the local liberation movement.
the recognition of BD as a respectable sovereign country.
-I am a indian, with a lot of bangla friends. for me bangla culture n language was always very attractive. i think am giving a impartial response here.
-my education taught me, india won 1971 war on pak(with due liberation of millions of bengalis in east), the emphasis was on the victory of war not that we were the very reason of BD's existence. yes, india took n it takes pride in this matter. so, does that makes it any lesser!
- there are videos on youtube of Mrs. gandhi going around the world, taking up your voice among the world bodies, questioning them? u know what it takes to standup against the whole world for someone's else sake...
Iam not saying india has to have all the credit, my father told me indian army wouldnt have moved so swiftly without the help of the locals. get the point IT WAS A STRUGGLE ON GENOCIDE BY HUMANITY, BD DESERVES ITS SPIRIT OF FREEDOM.
INDIA IS NOT THE SOLE REASON FOR BD'D EXISTENCE. IT IS TRULY HER PEOPLE(BANGLADESHIS). BUT SAYING INDIA HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IS RIDICULOUS.
INDIRA GANDHI MITE HAVE HER REASONS, BUT THE SOLDIERS WHO DIED ON A FOREIGN LAND DINT HAD ANY!
we dont want you to be grateful n loyal n all crap. but frankly, down at the depths of human heart there is something called humanity. i get a very uneasy feeling when i hear about anti-india forces in BD, for me, well atleast i thought we were natural allies.
how pathetic it is of some one mentioning a sarcastic logic of india helping once east pakistan for liberation and now BD helping north-east or kashmir issues. its sheerly outrageous commenting on indian national integrity, these liberation struggles in india are aided by foreign lands, army, money aint indigenous. if you cant help, stay out of it, dont be an accomplice.
i feel really bad for those thousands of soldiers, who died or suffered for your cause.
yet i conclude saying, we in india have a rather friendly ally feeling about BD, pls dont spill venom.
Quite useful material, much thanks for this article.
It will not really have effect, I feel like this.
Well actually i wonder, is like democracy, is big fat lie and every one believe that they choose they politics, ignorance is a bless.
Dudes,. Indira Gandhi is the first to Recognize Bangladesh Freedom struggle and Announce IT AS INDEPENDENT COUNTRY...
EVEN INDIA FACED MANY DIFFICULTIES IN UN FROM US, CHINA and is only supported by RUSSIA & JAPAN.
Our Army trained Mukthi Force when they are killed in thousands by PAK ARMY due to lack of fighting skills.
Pak Killed 1k of indians and bombed India and triggered 1971 war trying to occupy INDIA...
THEN INDIA DIRECTLY JOINED WAR for which US SENDS WAR SHIPS TO FIGHT INDIA... that are countered while CROSSING BY RUSSIAN MISSILES WITH OUT SINGLE MISSILE FIRED
INDIAN CAPTURES 70k PAK ARMY and RELEASES THEM AFTER AGREEMENT WITH PAK TO RECOGNIZE BANGLADESH AS INDEPENDENT COUNTRY....
YES, I AGREE MUKTHI TEAM PROVIDED IMP VALUE ADD"S to the FIGHT..
BUT PLS RECOGNIZE INDIA"S SUPPORT.
ONLY LATER BANGLADESH IS RECOGNIZED BY US & CHINA POST PAK ACCEPTANCE after pak Soldiers release who are killing INDIAN SOLDIERS ON INDIAN LOC... & BANGLADESH NEW GENERATION REFUSES TO ACCEPT INDIAN STRUGGLE FOR BANGLADESH
REFER BELOW URL FOR US SUPPORT DETAILS FOR BANGLADESH
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/GF23Df04.html
True color of a Hindu. Keep on saying whatever but we don't owe you anything
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